tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post3383088925510619839..comments2020-04-03T18:45:38.078-05:00Comments on the rewards of observation and reflection: Pride & Prejudice, Chapters 1-6, Discussion PostRewards of Observationhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17034910360545245581noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-57462284991625412152013-10-10T12:07:35.058-05:002013-10-10T12:07:35.058-05:00oh, and another thing about Mr. Darcy's honest...oh, and another thing about Mr. Darcy's honesty-- not only is he willing to admit it to himself, he is perfectly fine with telling Caroline as well. I love that line...."I have been meditating on the very great pleasure which a pair of fine eyes in the face of a pretty woman can bestow." It's so honest! Because that is exactly what he was thinking at that moment. I think a more socially aware person would not have said that to Caroline?? And of course, here I cannot help but think of movie Caroline's face when he says this. I think the actress captures perfectly in her face what the character must be feeling.Rewards of Observationhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17034910360545245581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-5891332878159133542013-10-10T12:02:02.800-05:002013-10-10T12:02:02.800-05:00Yes, Andrea, my readings are very much affected by...Yes, Andrea, my readings are very much affected by the movies as well! Sometimes I even remember a line and then try to find in the book, but then discover it's not actually from the book, but from the movie. :) I love too, the inside look at what Darcy is feeling in Chapter 6. I think this might be one of the very few times in all of her novels that Austen gives us an inside look into what a male character is thinking. It does create great dramatic irony and I really enjoy that about this story.<br /><br />I really like your observation about "how the family unit rises and falls together." That really is true! And so much of the story is affected by this. We tend to think of falling in love as an individual thing, but it really wasn't for them (well, in some ways it is, but in some ways it isn't). I hadn't ever really thought about Bingley being influenced by his sisters' outward approval of Jane, but I think that is spot on. <br /><br />I love Elizabeth's comment in Ch. 4 as well---it really shows she is her father's daughter. Rewards of Observationhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17034910360545245581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-14564235710516563112013-10-10T11:40:43.877-05:002013-10-10T11:40:43.877-05:00I really love your comment about her tone, too, Mi...I really love your comment about her tone, too, Michelle! You said it perfectly. :) And I'm glad you've pointed out the difficulty of her syntax as well as tone. I think that was true for me the first time or two that I read it, but it's been so long that I had forgotten what it was like. I think in the end you will "get a sense for the rhythm and tone of her writing" (at least I hope so!). Rewards of Observationhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17034910360545245581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-54083633523276115332013-10-10T11:35:57.210-05:002013-10-10T11:35:57.210-05:00Mrs. Bennet is really such an interesting characte...Mrs. Bennet is really such an interesting character--I agree, I think it is hilarious that she has not been able to figure out her husband, although I think it's interesting that at the end of chapter 3 she says to him that "I wish you had been there, my dear, to have given him one of your set downs". She knows that her husband gives lots of "set downs" but is often unable to figure out when it's actually happening to her. A relationship like this would definitely be a powerful negative example & motivation for Elizabeth. <br /><br />And yes, Darcy's immediate acknowledgment of his misjudgement and how he immediately "acts openly upon his new feelings with no attempt to save face" is something that has just recently struck me about Darcy too. He is really all about being honest about what he feels, even if it means socially offending someone. When he first went to the dance, he didn't like it there and was clearly acting like he didn't want to be there, which of course, offended everybody else. Someone commenting on the Lizzie Bennet Diaries adaptation, suggested that perhaps Darcy has (or could have had) a slight case of Aspergers or even Autism. He is very intelligent, but he also seems to miss some social clues and seems to have no qualms about saying whatever he thinks, whether that is something positive or negative -- see chapter 4 "In understanding Darcy was the superior. Bingley was by no means deficient, but Darcy was clever....his manners, though well bred, were not inviting.....Bingley was sure of being liked wherever he appeared, Darcy was continually giving offence." Of course, I think that his very high position in society, (wealthy, high class, respected), might also contribute to his feeling like he doesn't need to go to any lengths to try to please people that he doesn't care about. This kind of attitude, of course, is what you point out Jessica, as one of the important initial questions..."is pride ever appropriate"? I think that at this point, Darcy does think that there may be an appropriate place for pride....but perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself, so maybe I should stop there. :) <br /><br />I agree too, poor Mary. Though I think, too, that Austen paints her as not very agreeable or pleasant, not so much because she is not as pretty as her sisters, but because she is so proud of her accomplishments (which in the end, is just repeating the moral maxims that she has read about in a book). And oh, the irony, then, of her being the one to give the definition of pride and vanity! I think that sometimes I'm afraid that I have a little bit of Mary in me. :-/ <br /><br />And I love Lizzy's quote as well---it shows that she, too, has some self-knowledge to start with. And perhaps that is the difference between her and Mary. Lizzy can recognize that her pride was wounded, where as Mary cannot (or at least does not) acknowledge that sometimes she is proud.<br /><br />And Jessica, your husband's comment makes me laugh! But when I think about, I think I can see a little bit of Mr. Darcy in him too. ;) Rewards of Observationhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17034910360545245581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-23284750519362865652013-10-09T18:31:28.335-05:002013-10-09T18:31:28.335-05:00I love your comment about how Austen "alterna...I love your comment about how Austen "alternates between tongue-in-cheek, even snarky, prose and really poingnant statements." That is so true! Andreahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18432264768466982406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-52620170966328419712013-10-09T14:31:14.473-05:002013-10-09T14:31:14.473-05:00Thanks for this great post, Lynnelle! I enjoyed re...Thanks for this great post, Lynnelle! I enjoyed reading it!<br /><br />So one thing I was struck by was how much my reading of this novel is affected by the movie versions! :-) Is that true for anyone else? So what surprised me somewhat in this reading of Ch. 1-6 is how little Lydia and Kitty are described. I get a good sense of Jane, Lizzy, and even Mary (and yes, to Jessica's comments about poor Mary! I do feel a bit bad for her at times!). <br /><br />I think the reader is disposed to like Mr. Darcy in these early chapters, even though Lizzy and indeed all of Meryton is opposed to him. I love the inside look we get of Darcy, especially in Chapter 6, where his first impressions of Elizabeth are revised. I like what Jessica said about how willing Darcy is to change his opinion of her. I like how Darcy finds his revised opinions to be "mortifying" to himself as he is "forced to acknowledge" Elizabeth's good attributes. :-)<br /><br />I think what strikes me about the family dynamics in these early chapters that seems more "old-fashioned" is how the family unit rises and falls together. So there's no sense of each character making his or her own way in the world. Mrs. Bennet is concerned about getting all her girls married ("If I can but see one of my daughters happily settled at Netherfield," said Mrs. Bennet to her husband, "and all the others equally well married, I shall have nothing to wish for"). They seem to mostly attend functions and visit each other as a unit (excepting Mr. Bennet at times!). The Bingley family also acts as a unit in regards to their fortune and efforts to raise their status. Mr. Bingley is influenced even early on by his sisters' approval of Jane (end of Ch. 4). So this whole falling-in-love business is very much a family affair. And since their financial health is so closely tied to their marriage prospects, this makes sense. <br /><br />I do love that conversation in the beginning of Ch. 4 between Jane and Elizabeth about evaluating others. I think I side more with Lizzy here. I think people like Jane are indeed rare in the world. <br /><br />I like how Mr. Darcy approaches getting to know Elizabeth. I think the quiet way in which he observes her, though, does not serve him well later on since she knows nothing of his change in regard. But that makes the novel fun! :-) <br /><br />One of my favorite quotes is from Lizzy in Ch. 4 when Lizzy and Jane are discussing Bingley: "He is also handsome, which a young man ought likewise to be, if he possibly can. His character is thereby complete." Andreahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18432264768466982406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-77340610591940119572013-10-09T14:01:00.792-05:002013-10-09T14:01:00.792-05:00Lovely synopsis, Lynnelle. Thanks for the extra re...Lovely synopsis, Lynnelle. Thanks for the extra references, too. I'm looking forward to watching the BBC documentary!<br /><br />You'll have to forgive my bumblings here. This is my first time ever reading Jane Austen if you can believe it. (What rock have I been under?) Since I've never actually interacted with the text, I was struck with the difficulty of interpreting her tone. I wasn't expecting that! It struck me reading these first several chapters that she alternates between tongue-in-cheek, even snarky, prose and really poingnant statements. <br /><br />Sorry to not be providing specific examples from the text here. I'm just sharing my overall impression, the emotional takeaway I had after reading. I found myself pausing every page or two at a paragraph that would just seem more sincere, an oddity since I was almost constantly giggling at the ridiculous dialogs and scenarios she devises. Her style is complex in a different way than I had expected. <br /><br />I thought I would struggle with antiquated vocabulary, but it seems that will not be all that's stretched! I'm sure it will be a few weeks before I get a sense for the rhythm and tone of her writing. But I'm already enjoying the dirty work of interpreting that tone for myself rather than relying on film or CD. maurainellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17213067787650196311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-71737175657491415752013-10-07T19:00:59.898-05:002013-10-07T19:00:59.898-05:00This is Jessica Baker:
I am always entranced by Mr...This is Jessica Baker:<br />I am always entranced by Mr. and Mrs. Bennet's relationship. They serve as the biggest contrast to Lizzy and Darcy. Their relationship is everything Lizzy is NOT looking for. At the same time they are hilarious. The fact that Mrs Bennet has not been able to figure her husband out even slightly is almost farcical. I love the bit where Mr Bennet tells her that Bingley may like her best and she takes it as a compliment on her beauty. <br /><br />My second favorite relationship is between Lizzy and Charlotte. I can't help but love Charlotte's utterly practical yet satirical opinions. Charlotte's speech about happiness in marriage being entirely a matter of chance is so desperately true for the average relationship of her time or perhaps even ours. I like how it sets Lizzy up to be looking for something better and more true.<br /><br />One thing about Darcy that really struck me this time around was his ability to acknowledge his changing opinions and feelings regarding Lizzy. He is opinionated and definite in his censure but as soon as he begins to shift he acts openly upon his new feelings with no attempt to save face or pretend it is not happening. <br /><br />I always experience a great deal of pity for Mary. Austen abuses her terribly as a character and uses her to espouse questions of morality and ethics. I don't think any actress in movies have ever played her quite true. Mary always wants to be more then she and is constantly trying to fit herself into one mold or another such as the intelligent one, the pious one, the talented one, etc but never the pretty one.<br /><br />Austen strongly opens with the theme of pride and poses the questions, "Is pride ever appropriate?". I like Mary defining the difference between pride and vanity as how we see ourselves versus how we want others to see us. My husband always accuses me of liking fictional male characters that share his personality traits. He is probably correct and with Darcy it is his ability to perceive himself truly with all his strengths and weaknesses. I feel Darcy despite knowing his own faults still lets them trip him up, which unfortunately occurs all too often in real life. My favorite quote in the first 6 chapters is Lizzy acknowledging, "I could easily forgive his pride if he had not mortified mine."<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com