tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.comments2020-04-03T18:45:38.078-05:00the rewards of observation and reflectionRewards of Observationhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17034910360545245581noreply@blogger.comBlogger69125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-66427728848797352042020-04-03T18:45:38.078-05:002020-04-03T18:45:38.078-05:00I wish I remembered the variety! I bought it at a ...I wish I remembered the variety! I bought it at a local garden shop.Rewards of Observationhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17034910360545245581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-78851643989644556272020-03-29T15:33:28.298-05:002020-03-29T15:33:28.298-05:00That hellebore is beautiful! I'd love to put s...That hellebore is beautiful! I'd love to put some in my garden.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06702687070496984863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-4866861330948561162019-02-01T20:00:34.350-06:002019-02-01T20:00:34.350-06:00Thank you! Sometimes I just sit and stare at the f...Thank you! Sometimes I just sit and stare at the fireplace because I still can't get over how amazing it is that we have a home like this. God has been so gracious and kind to us!Rewards of Observationhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17034910360545245581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-69196803623894708772019-02-01T13:43:49.575-06:002019-02-01T13:43:49.575-06:00Your living room/fireplace is just gorgeous!Your living room/fireplace is just gorgeous!maurainellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17213067787650196311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-15974213187412973832018-07-22T00:38:21.410-05:002018-07-22T00:38:21.410-05:00Such beautiful photos and History lessons too! tha...Such beautiful photos and History lessons too! thanks for sharing!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07412144082368042920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-58746366477900308832013-12-09T09:36:58.082-06:002013-12-09T09:36:58.082-06:00I like your point that "Elizabeth's disre...I like your point that "Elizabeth's disregard for Mr. Darcy has been a self-defense mechanism of rejecting him before he rejected her." I think that makes complete sense!Rewards of Observationhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17034910360545245581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-47789215339108429842013-12-09T09:20:46.250-06:002013-12-09T09:20:46.250-06:00oops! You're right. Sorry about that. I will f...oops! You're right. Sorry about that. I will fix this. I actually just updated the original reading schedule post, so the one posted is the correct one. However, I will fix the link. :)Rewards of Observationhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17034910360545245581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-82340473411316326562013-12-09T01:35:57.687-06:002013-12-09T01:35:57.687-06:00The good stuff! Heartwrenching drama. It's alm...The good stuff! Heartwrenching drama. It's almost painful to read Elizabeth's seething attack on Darcy. Then again, it's also painful to read his attempt at a proposal. His opening line of ardently admiring and loving her sets us up for a fall as he proceeds to list off points against his feeling that way. You know, I think Elizabeth had been waiting for her chance to mouth off at Darcy (she is certainly mouthy with him as it is), and her anger for Jane gave her an excuse to do so. I don't think she would have been as vile had it not been for what Colonel Fitzwilliam told her, but I do think she would have a scathing rejection nonetheless.<br /><br />As is pointed out in a later post, it's really interesting how she mulls over this proposal even though she had little trouble forgetting about Mr. Collins'. In a weird way, I've felt as though Elizabeth's disregard for Mr. Darcy has been a self-defense mechanism of rejecting him before he rejected her. His first remarks of criticism which she overheard about her not being that great a beauty stung her deeply (it was repeated several times in the narrative), and it seems she's been working herself in a tizzy ever since. If she truly hadn't cared for Mr. Darcy, then why would she have spent so much energy in digging up dirt on him, talking about him with others, wondering at his behaviors? Although negatively so, she has been engrossed with him, and I can't help but suspect that her overreaction was her trying to make herself the rejector rather than the rejected. And if you don't actually care for somebody or hold them in some regard, then they can't deeply hurt you as Darcy seems to have hurt Elizabeth. I realize that's a stretch, but it's just been rolling around in my head for a while.<br /><br />To both Elizabeth and Darcy's credit, they take a step back and reexamine themselves. I don't know how Darcy was able to write such a clear account to Elizabeth (maybe a man thing to have such clarity of thought in the aftermath of emotion?). And it doesn't come across as self-pitying or defensive. For Elizabeth's part, it's wonderful to see her soften and begin to realize the stubborn arrogance of her own dealings and opinions. She does well to feel ashamed and accept the justice of her humiliation.<br /><br />I will say I'm thankful to have seen the A&E miniseries. I just couldn't read the proposal, the meeting on the path, and the reading of the letter without visualizing those scenes and hearing the actors' intonations. Those portrayals were so passionate, not what I'd expect due to stuffier English preconceptions, allowing me to envision more complex three-dimensional characters than I might have otherwise done.maurainellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17213067787650196311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-22564731741840092892013-12-09T01:08:27.586-06:002013-12-09T01:08:27.586-06:00Hmmm... I'm having trouble viewing the revised...Hmmm... I'm having trouble viewing the revised schedule. When I click on the hyperlink, it opens a new tab but just takes me to this post again. Any ideas how I can find the revised schedule?maurainellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17213067787650196311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-56597287735804451962013-12-09T01:06:32.350-06:002013-12-09T01:06:32.350-06:00BeautifulBeautifulmaurainellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17213067787650196311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-46215071633777009922013-12-09T01:04:06.066-06:002013-12-09T01:04:06.066-06:00Now that you mention it, I felt similarly about th...Now that you mention it, I felt similarly about the narrative. Whereas there are so many day-in, day-out details elsewhere, it stands out when months are zoomed through without much explanation. I like it when time passes more slowly, and we're allowed to focus on the juicy details. Of course, like you said, Lynnelle, the details magnified don't involve the juicyness we're waiting for (i.e. advancing Darcy and Elizabeth's relationship), so there's not as much to relish. Sigh. :-P<br /><br />I hadn't thought about Elizabeth being her father's daughter in the scene where she amuses herself thinking of how she might have been presented at Rosings as Lady Catherine's niece, but that parallel is quite insightful. And for her to have also been "captivated by youth and beauty".... I am really struck with Austen's ability to craft these complex, dynamic female characters. She equally faults her characters regardless of gender, yet does so while comfortably situating them in their gender-specific socioeconomic slot. So how much more interesting for Elizabeth, an unmarried young woman, to follow in her father's ways! <br /><br />That really gives depth to the explanation of the odd coupling of Mr. and Mrs. Bennett, too. At first it seemed a random, albeit welcomed, comment, but it makes much more sense in light of Elizabeth's close miss with Wickham. Interesting, too, how that same passage further explains that Mr. Bennett "was not of a disposition to seek comfort for the disappointment which his own imprudence had brought on, in any of those pleasures which too often console the unfortunate". Later on, Elizabeth herself will be described as not being of a nature which would let her dwell on her misfortunes or let them spoil her outlook. Maybe she likewise parallels her father in her coping strategy?<br /><br />I love your insights, Lynnelle! I'm getting so much more out of reading because of your book club than I would on my own. Thank you again for doing this!maurainellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17213067787650196311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-83052852842869732582013-12-08T20:05:09.920-06:002013-12-08T20:05:09.920-06:00Yum! I love that they have oatmeal in them, and yo...Yum! I love that they have oatmeal in them, and you just can't go wrong with chocolate chips :-)maurainellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17213067787650196311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-21400270897458945852013-12-08T20:03:44.503-06:002013-12-08T20:03:44.503-06:00I'm back! This of course is of no consequence ...I'm back! This of course is of no consequence to anyone but myself, but I am very glad to be back reading and commenting :-) Thanks to the ice storm, I found myself waking each day to immediately reach for what I had drowsily regretted to put down the night before. It was hard to stop reading because these chapters are hands down my favorite thus far. What a time to be back!<br /><br />You know, it's interesting that you point out suspense, Lynnelle. I think I must revel in suspense because the emotional turmoil, as tormenting as it is to read, are so masterfully laid out that I felt these chapters well rewarded all reading leading up to them. My heart skipped a beat as Austen described Darcy's portrait fixing its eyes on Elizabeth, and I almost blushed myself when their eyes truly met soon after. (I must give credit to the A&E miniseries, though, for upping the ante by having Darcy cool his passions with a dip in his estate stream. The book version of him merely strolling from the stables seemed a bit disappointing in comparison. LOL) I'm just in awe of Austen's writing talent. She does a tremendous job of guiding us through each high and low of this emotional ride. <br /><br />I love how we see the best come out in both Elizabeth and Darcy. These poor characters have revealed many faults up to this point, but it seems in trial they truly shine. Page after page, Elizabeth's grace struck me. She conducts herself so well in the face of the numerous humiliations that affront her: Caroline's horrible comments, Lydia's selfish decisions, even Darcy's kindness which revealed the inaccuracy of her stubborn judgments. (Trials resulting from one's own errors can be just as painful as trials resulting from the errors of others.) And for Darcy's part, his strong character, marked by duty and integrity, are likewise striking, even if it means he errs in self-importance. He is keenly aware of his responsibilities and fiercely loyal to those in his trust. From these chapters, so much of his good is shown that I feel bad as a reader for allowing Elizabeth's assessments to affect my own judgments of him.<br /><br />I'm not sure how she did it, but Austen totally and completely roped me in at this point in the story. I give her credit for taking the reader through, rather than around, the waiting time in these huge events. I don't recall any "meanwhile back at the estate" type of distractions. Instead, we must read through the mornings spent waiting for word from Mr. Bennett, only to be disappointed along with the older sisters at no word from their father. We must read through the ride away from Pemberley when Elizabeth's mind is racing and yet she refrains from speaking about what is truly on her mind. (I should add above that in addition to her grace I am so struck at her self-control in not wearing her heart on her sleeve. I greatly admire her ability to hold her tongue and maintain composure!) Even recalling it all makes me want to squeal! :-) What a truly fascinating part in the story!maurainellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17213067787650196311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-80497138176258549402013-11-21T23:53:20.953-06:002013-11-21T23:53:20.953-06:00Comments, Part 4
Ah, and then the proposal and le...Comments, Part 4<br /><br />Ah, and then the proposal and letter. Whenever I read this section or watch this scene, I feel like my emotions are zigzagging between melting at his proposal ( "In vain have I struggled. It will not do. My feelings will not be repressed. You must allow me to tell you how ardently I admire and love you.") and cringing at his awful elitism & pride ("Could you expect me to rejoice in the inferiority of your connexions? -- to congratulate myself on the hope of relations, whose condition in life is so decidedly beneath my own?") Aaah, really Mr. Darcy! Those words almost make me as mad at him as Elizabeth is. :) But I do love the consistent way in which Austen draws these characters. Why is he so rude to Elizabeth during the proposal...when any normal person knows that a proposal is when you turn up the flattery?? Well, he tells us: " But disguise of every sort is my abhorrence." I think the key here is that he doesn't think he is being rude. He thinks he is paying her the greatest compliment in the world. Which is an amazing delusion, as Elizabeth so rightly points out,....just as huge as Elizabeth's misconception of his character and personality. This is such a brilliant clash of these characters at their most prejudiced and blinded moments, and really, the climax of the narrative. I like how you pointed out that the fallout of this clash is that they both experience a "a just humiliation." And only when they are both properly humiliated can they begin to truly come to know and understand one another. Such a beautiful story!! I don't think I will ever get tired of reading it. :-) Rewards of Observationhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17034910360545245581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-23441406355011896532013-11-21T23:52:35.655-06:002013-11-21T23:52:35.655-06:00(My comments, Part 3)
A third scene--or scenes--t...(My comments, Part 3)<br /><br />A third scene--or scenes--that are hinted at in the mini-series, but not played out, are the walks Darcy takes with Elizabeth.<br />"More than once did Elizabeth, in her ramble within the Park, unexpectedly meet Mr. Darcy. She felt all the perverseness of the mischance that should bring him where no one else was brought, and, to prevent its ever happening again, took care to inform him at first that it was a favourite haunt of hers. How it could occur a second time, therefore, was very odd! Yet it did, and even a third. It seemed like wilful ill-nature, or a voluntary penance, for on these occasions it was not merely a few formal enquiries and an awkward pause and then away, but he actually thought it necessary to turn back and walk with her. He never said a great deal, nor did she give herself the trouble of talking or of listening much; but it struck her in the course of their third rencontre that he was asking some odd unconnected questions -- about her pleasure in being at Hunsford, her love of solitary walks, and her opinion of Mr. and Mrs. Collins's happiness; and that in speaking of Rosings, and her not perfectly understanding the house, he seemed to expect that whenever she came into Kent again she would be staying there too. His words seemed to imply it. Could he have Colonel Fitzwilliam in his thoughts? She supposed, if he meant anything, he must mean an allusion to what might arise in that quarter. It distressed her a little, and she was quite glad to find herself at the gate in the pales opposite the Parsonage."<br />Ok, a couple of things. Seriously, how can Elizabeth be so shocked at the actual proposal, after all of Charlotte's hints plus Mr. Darcy purposely going out of his way to walk with her. (I know, I know....it's because her prejudice has blinded her. :-) The other thing I find interesting....Darcy walking with her, presumably when she is by herself, isn't noted as being inappropriate. This kind of seems surprising compared with what I've often heard people say about how the culture was during that time. But it doesn't seem likely that Darcy, who seems a very proper, upright, obey-the-rules kind of guy would behave in a culturally inappropriate way. It may be that because they are walking within the "park" at Rosings, it is considered fine. If they were walking over the countryside and not staying within the property of Rosings, they probably would be considered acting inappropriately (i.e.,in the category of the Bingley ladies accuse Elizabeth of impropriety for walking 3 miles to Netherfield).<br />Rewards of Observationhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17034910360545245581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-85454063058057090522013-11-21T23:51:49.912-06:002013-11-21T23:51:49.912-06:00Blogger won't let me post my entire thoughts i...Blogger won't let me post my entire thoughts in one comment....so here is Part 2 of my comments)<br /><br />So this leads, of course to Colonel Fitzwilliam. Ha, and yes, Andrea, I think that glorified plot device is a pretty good way to describe him. But beyond revealing the Bingley info, I think that perhaps he does something even more important. I think he makes Darcy jealous, which makes Darcy realize how seriously he is in love with Elizabeth...enough to put aside all the objections and still ask her to marry him. " Colonel Fitzwilliam seemed really glad to see them; anything was a welcome relief to him at Rosings; and Mrs. Collins's pretty friend had moreover caught his fancy very much. He now seated himself by her, and talked so agreeably of Kent and Hertfordshire, of travelling and staying at home, of new books and music, that Elizabeth had never been half so well entertained in that room before; and they conversed with so much spirit and flow, as to draw the attention of Lady Catherine herself, as well as of Mr. Darcy. His eyes had been soon and repeatedly turned towards them with a look of curiosity..." I love that. :) Though perhaps some of the adaptations hint at this scene, I don't think I've seen it play out (ok, I really can't remember any of the film adaptations except for the BBC 1995 one, so perhaps others do). I can just imagine Elizabeth and Colonel Fitzwilliam having a grand time in the corner, with Darcy getting more and more jealous...or rather more and more aware of how serious his feelings are. I think that though Austen never makes the Colonel a serious contender for Elizabeth's affections, in some ways Darcy recognizes that the Colonel could be one. Though he's not as rich as Darcy, he probably is rich enough to support Elizabeth if they really fell in love (assuming that his family would approve of her....which later he makes clear that they wouldn't. But anyway, beside the point). So if Darcy had come by himself without the Colonel, I think perhaps the proposal might never have taken place....or at least Austen would have had to come up with another good motivation. So yes, glorified plot device. But one that I really like. :)<br />Rewards of Observationhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17034910360545245581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-73265566120141395262013-11-21T23:48:26.717-06:002013-11-21T23:48:26.717-06:00Great post, Andrea! I am waaay behind with these p...Great post, Andrea! I am waaay behind with these posts and readings. :( But will try to catch up tonight. These are some of my favorite chapters in the book....and I like how you noted that their theme is "change in perspective" , and a very shocking and really sudden shift, that I do think I feel emotionally worn out--though not as much as Elizabeth since I've already been rooting for the match. <br /><br />I realize that as I've been reading this time around, I've been taking special note of things that happen in the novel that don't really get depicted in the film versions (or maybe just barely touched on), and thinking about the way they re-shape the story as I imagine it while I'm reading. <br /><br />The first non-film event I noticed (or rather lack of an event) is the first paragraph of chapter 31:<br />"It was some days, however, before they received any invitation thither [Rosings] -- for while there were visitors in the house they could not be necessary; and it was not till Easter-day, almost a week after the gentlemen's arrival, that they were honoured by such an attention, and then they were merely asked on leaving church to come there in the evening. For the last week they had seen very little of either Lady Catherine or her daughter. Colonel Fitzwilliam had called at the parsonage more than once during the time, but Mr. Darcy they had only seen at church." Although Darcy and Colonel Fitzwilliam visit within the first day of their arrival, it is "almost a week" before Darcy sees Elizabeth. Even more striking is that the Colonel doesn't take that long...he actually goes to visit the parsonage "more than once", but Darcy "they had only seen at church." The film versions usually jump immediately from Darcy's first parsonage visit to the Rosings event (which is fabulous---such a great display of D and E's "well matched minds", as you put it, and their increasing misunderstanding of each other). I think this always led me to assume that Darcy is still really thinking of Elizabeth, that he has talked about her to the Colonel, and that perhaps he came to visit Lady Catherine to see her. I know that's probably not the case, but I think I kind of assumed it. What Darcy actually does in the book seems to indicate that even after seeing Elizabeth again, he is not, at this point, thinking of marrying her yet. His actions seem to be more in line with how he was thinking at the end of the Netherfield visit. Rewards of Observationhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17034910360545245581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-17690285030794186182013-11-04T21:43:41.225-06:002013-11-04T21:43:41.225-06:00I agree, too, that I am much more sympathetic to C...I agree, too, that I am much more sympathetic to Charlotte than Elizabeth. In fact, I think I am more sympathetic the older I get! I don't know if you've seen the Lizzie Bennet Diaries, but I thought that way that they adapted this point in the plot was brilliant (I won't tell you how, in case you haven't seen it). It really made me think about how Elizabeth's reaction (to not marry him because she didn't love him) could be considered truly selfish rather than heroic.<br /><br />Hmm, Mr. Bennet. He is another one of those characters that I have somewhat changed my opinion about the more I read the book and the older I get. I know when I first read it, I put Mr. Bennet in the category of a "good" character. Of course there are good things about him, and I don't think we're supposed to dislike him in the way we do Wickham (or even Caroline?), but he really is a terrible father and husband. Like most of Austen's characters, he is certainly complex---a combination of good and bad (or foolish)---but I think that I have revised my once fully favorable opinion to a more mixed one.<br /><br />I like how you pointed out that we see the "limits of family approval of one's spouse" and that it is a "tension" that "will continue throughout the book." Austen is one who always seeks a balance. She makes fun of extremes but never entirely discounts one side over another.Rewards of Observationhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17034910360545245581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-36469223920573605212013-11-01T16:44:13.185-05:002013-11-01T16:44:13.185-05:00This was a great post to read, Lynnelle! I am also...This was a great post to read, Lynnelle! I am also tempted to get irritated with Jane and think her naive, so this was a good reminder that her perspective is just a valid as Elizabeth's. :-) I thought the end of Chapter 24 provided a good example of the benefits of Jane's perspective -- while everyone else is "pleased to think how much they had always disliked Mr. Darcy before they had known any thing of the [Wickham] matter," Jane is the only one thinking that there might be a mistake in the rush to judgment. And she will be proven right! :-)<br /><br />Some of my rambling thoughts:<br /><br />- When I read the book (or watch the movie versions), I always wish that Mr. Collins would have considered Mary as a potential wife! I wonder if they would truly have gotten along, though? A line in Chapter 22 stood out to me on this reading -- "There was a solidity in his reflections which often struck her, and though by no means as clever as herself, she thought that if encouraged to read and improve himself by such an example as hers, he might become a very agreeable companion." That made me wonder if Mary would have been too "superior" for Mr. Collins to be happy with her. I always feel, though, that this was Mary's one chance to secure a husband and it slipped away. <br /><br />- I'm definitely sympathetic to Charlotte's pursuit of Mr. Collins. I feel that the book makes quite plain that Charlotte's lot in life would have been hard as a single woman, and you certainly get the sense that her whole family breathed a sigh of relief on her engagement. I don't think the narrator's being humorous or witty here -- "[Marriage] was the only honourable provision for well-educated young women of small fortune, and however uncertain of giving happiness, must be their pleasantest preservative from want."<br /><br />- What do you think of Mr. Bennet? He baffles me a bit, and I'm not sure what Austen intends for me to think of him. On one hand, he disengages from the family, is in constant retreat in his library, and never seems to have a serious conversation with his wife. So is he a bad husband/father? On the other hand, Elizabeth seems to have a good relationship with him and seems to find companionship and support from him. <br /><br />- I think we see the continuation of the theme of "the whole family rises/falls together" in the influence that Bingley's sisters are exerting over his relationship with Jane and in the Lucas family's relief at Charlotte's engagement. But I also think we see the limits of family approval of one's spouse when Elizabeth and Jane discuss Jane's marrying Mr. Bingley in spite of his family's disapproval. And I think that tension between those two sides of the coin will continue throughout the book -- the influence and importance of family in marriage choice but also the limits of that influence/importance when love supersedes. <br />Andreahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18432264768466982406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-72669133020956507592013-10-26T14:02:26.189-05:002013-10-26T14:02:26.189-05:00I'd be happy to take the post for November 11 ...I'd be happy to take the post for November 11 for Chapters 31-36!<br /><br />I feel like I don't have any grand insights this week since my week was full and I read P&P in snatches rather than in one or two sittings, which is more helpful when I'm trying to be observant. :-) But I loved reading your compilation of the conversations on pride -- it's helpful to see them all together, and I agree with your conclusion that none of the characters like it when they are the recipients of someone else's pride. <br /><br />I also agree that Elizabeth definitely cares more and more about what Darcy thinks. :-) In the movies, I have enjoyed how the dance is portrayed -- I think the filmmakers capture her attraction to him (or at least her care for his opinion). I feel so sorry for her at the ball -- the dinner conversation that her mother conducts loudly with Mrs. Lucas is so crass. You can just feel Elizabeth's mortification! <br /><br />Wickham is such a sneaky character! He tiptoes around the story until he gets a sense of how Elizabeth feels and then charges ahead with his woe-is-me story. I sympathize with Elizabeth's interest in his story. He fuels her already-made-up mind about Darcy. And he weaves enough truth into the falsehood to make the story compelling. <br /><br />My favorite quote actually came from Mary! I don't think of myself as having much in common with her, but we evidently share a love for time to ourselves! :-) From Ch. 17: "While I can have my mornings to myself, it is enough. I think it no sacrifice to join occasionally in evening engagements. Society has claims on us all. . . ."Andreahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18432264768466982406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-4758865845483780342013-10-26T13:39:07.419-05:002013-10-26T13:39:07.419-05:00I think Emma would like anyone she could bend to h...I think Emma would like anyone she could bend to her will! (And I do love Emma in spite of this.) So I think she would latch on to Anne Eliot (though there is the age difference), since Anne seems more willing to be influenced (esp at the beginning). And maybe Emma would like Fanny, though perhaps Fanny is too good for Emma to like completely.<br /><br />I tend to think Elizabeth and Elinor would get along, since Elinor reminds me a little of Jane Bennet and Jane and Elizabeth are close. They have differing personalities, but neither of them is silly.<br /><br />Fun thoughts! :-) Andreahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18432264768466982406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-88100308708315555422013-10-25T10:59:19.829-05:002013-10-25T10:59:19.829-05:00fascinating thoughts, Michelle! Your idea that Car...fascinating thoughts, Michelle! Your idea that Caroline can still maintain herself in good social standing, even while being unkind to Elizabeth, because she doesn't get "caught" makes a lot of sense. The shame/honor paradigm is really interesting and I've never thought about applying it here. I think that there have been other critics/writers who did not like Elizabeth either and felt that she really was as Caroline describes her (although I'm afraid I have to disagree with you and say I don't think she is! ;-). But it is an interesting idea to think how progressive or scandalous Austen's values were. My two cents....is that I'm not really sure. I guess the only way to be completely sure is to go back in time and live in her world. While Caroline and Mrs. Bennet don't approve of her walking three miles in all that dirt, other characters don't seem to have a problem with it, e.g., Mr. Bennet, Jane, Darcy and Bingley do not seem to have the same attitude. Of course, you pointed this out as well: Elizabeth is acting for the "greater good." Elizabeth is not just going for a walk to be independent and rebellious, but she has a very valid reason--a kind of extenuating circumstance--that makes it acceptable rather than shameful, which is to be with her sick sister. That could be why Mr. Bennet doesn't make a fuss about it (though of course, he is a super lenient parent, so that probably shouldn't be an indication of anything), and in fact why both Darcy and Bingley comment about her actions as good because they show genuine care and concern for her sister. My guess is if Elizabeth were the type of character who went on 3 mile walks every other day by herself just to be alone, than that would have not been "commendable." Perhaps what Austen is pointing out here is genuine care for family trumps hypocritical adherence to social norms?? It would be really fascinating to try and understand if that was a radical idea for English society at that time, or if most people would have agreed with Austen. It reminds me of Jesus and the Pharisees--them attacking Jesus for doing good (healing) on the Sabbath. So here's a complete guess---I really have no idea and of course I'm biased by my modern perspective...but 19th century English culture is still a Western culture, and our modern cultural milieu (especially American) has many roots in British culture, so I'm wondering if perhaps individualism was a growing cultural phenomenon and perhaps not so foreign as we might think. Perhaps there were "culture" wars going on?...individualism vs. shame/honor values??....perhaps we are seeing a snapshot of a culture on transition?? Totally speculating, of course, but fascinating ideas. :-) <br /><br />Like you, I have thought that it is ironic that we love Elizabeth so much because she seems so modern, when Austen was the one that thought her up. I guess that leaves me with two thoughts: either Austen was ahead of her day, extremely radical and progressive....or else we as humans, no matter the time period, are not so different from each other after all. I haven't really decided which one I think it is. Perhaps a little of both. :)<br /><br />Rewards of Observationhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17034910360545245581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-6085552490429731632013-10-23T22:37:43.520-05:002013-10-23T22:37:43.520-05:00Like all of you, I loved these chapters. Such thou...Like all of you, I loved these chapters. Such thought provoking ideas above! The banter in these chapters reveals so much about each participant. I love how it feels like you're right there, observing these heated exchanges thinly cloaked in civility.<br /><br />Speaking of civility, I've been thinking a lot about Andrea's thought from the first several chapters regarding the familial nature of society at that time. Indeed it was what we today might label group think, where one's belonging to and subsequent representation of a bigger group (family, neighborhood, country, etc.) encompassed one's identity. Individualism was not only undesirable but strongly shameful since one's thoughts of self could be quite costly for the group good.<br /><br />What particularly stands out to me is the way in which shame and honor operate here. To bring shame on one's group was not necessarily to do something immoral but to be caught in the act. Thus, Caroline's hypocrisy in being kind to one's face only to sneer behind the same's back was only of concern if she was caught, such as she feared when poking fun at Mrs. Bennett as she strolled with Darcy. Likewise, she could maintain honor even through cold civility; although her true sentiments were clear to careful observers, her feigned manners kept her in good standing.<br /><br />It's so interesting to me how we millenial readers view Lizzy's break from such norms as admirable. To us, Caroline's two-faced behavior is clearly wrong. And I think Jane Austen certainly sets us up to reach such a judgment. However, I can't help but think that Austen's ideals were progressive and perhaps even scandalous. She acknowledges as much through pronouncing judgment on Lizzy through Caroline's lips: supercilious, impertinent, insolent, rude, unrestrained, out of good taste, proud, conceited, independent, indifferent to decorum. Caroline accurately pinpoints Lizzy's flaws, and it doesn't seem that her selfish motives render the pronouncements any less true.<br /><br />Sorry if I'm sounding too harsh on Lizzy. It's just that when she decides to march herself unaccompanied over three miles of muddy terrain, she does so to the astonishment of all. You know it's bad when even Mrs. Bennett acknowledges folly of it! While independence strikes us as an admirable quality (and it very may well have been admirable to Austen, too), the social millieu of that day regarded it as quite shameful.<br /><br />Maybe it's this kind of independence that attracts us modern Westnern readers to Lizzy and Darcy. Darcy speaks his mind freely, disregarding social graces in order to be more truthful as he sees it. Worried about Jane, Lizzy disregards social norms in order to be more useful as she sees it. Though their motives aren't pure, each operates in what they consider to be the greater good. And we can clearly see their talent in cutting through the hypocritical "honor" others so eagerly display for themselves. It's just ironic to me that in a day and time of group think, Austen has these protagonists pursue greater good by individualism.<br /><br />So much more to say, but this is too long as is. I'll close as everyone else did with my favorite quote. I love Mrs. Bennett's country bumpkin pride! I can just picture her facial expressions and intonations in chapter 9, thanks to Alison Steadman's amazing portrayal. "'...[T]hat gentleman,' looking at Darcy, 'seemed to think the country was nothing at all.... I believe there are few neighborhoods larger. I know we dine with four-and-twenty.'"maurainellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17213067787650196311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-75944546847574259452013-10-23T21:36:43.829-05:002013-10-23T21:36:43.829-05:00I, too, love your suggestions, Andrea. That would ...I, too, love your suggestions, Andrea. That would make a lot of sense if Sundays meant no diversions, forcing Bingley to suffer Darcy's dry comments and frequent silences.<br /><br />And, now that you mention it, I think there must be something attracting Lizzy to Darcy. If there weren't, why would she react so strongly against him? It's almost as if she's fully engaged in battling her attraction with the way she avoids him and "teases" him. So glad you pointed that out!maurainellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17213067787650196311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8329734749409535249.post-81662084099087384502013-10-22T11:44:54.428-05:002013-10-22T11:44:54.428-05:00Hi Emily! No worries about being "late"....Hi Emily! No worries about being "late". :) I'm so glad you're joining in. And I agree, it's very hard to stop at just six chapters. :-) <br /><br />I had read the book a long time ago, but didn't really get it, until I saw the BBC miniseries. Like many of you, it was the movie that got me back into the novels. So I think that, like you, when I read the novel I have a kind of mental comparison going on between the two. I agree that none of the movie versions do these entire conversations justice, which I think, when we go from the movie to the book, makes us so surprised at how much conversation goes on between the characters. <br /><br />Trying to thing through Elizabeth's eyes exclusively during the beginning of the novel is a great idea! I think Darcy's initial snub really affects her more deeply than she (or we) realize. So Darcy really does have a lot going against him. However, I like how you point out all of the very chivalrous actions Darcy makes toward Elizabeth. It seems that for the first one---Darcy asking her to dance, Elizabeth notices that he is being gallant, but is merely extremely surprised (the quote you mention at the end: "Elizabeth having rather expected to affront him, was amazed at his gallantry"). It doesn't seem to have made an impression though. I like how you point out his actions on the walk as being chivalrous, although she doesn't seem to notice his kindness. That is a great word for him. :) I think she is so blinded by her prejudice right now that she is unable to see the evidence for him being a kind person. What I do think, is that the more she gets to know him, the more she starts to care what his opinion of her is (as I point out in the next discussion :-).Rewards of Observationhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17034910360545245581noreply@blogger.com